I am confused with the terms "Vacation Clubs" and "Club International" Which is which?
"Vacation Clubs" and "Club International" are just two ways of referring to Vacation Clubs International... choose any two consecutive words, and that's the same one.
Which of the resorts comes up for sale in the next 7 years with a residual value paid to the unit week owner?
Vacation Clubs, about the year 2007. Reading John Olson's mind from what he has told me, it will be sold as a timeshare resort again.
What's the latest rumor on the amount that an owner might get back?
NOTE: I leave this, written 7 years ago here, and I put the latest news below it...
I have heard no rumors, but I'm the "expert" on the subject so let's start the rumor. If it were held today, I think the selling price would be, at most, twice the residual value for each unit, ie, I think the developers would only be able to sell it for an amount equal to twice our guarantee, or less. We would get back our guaranteed value, and the developers the amount above that. In my case, this would be at most $29,000 for week 52 and $28,000 for week 51 for a large "C" duplex with "ocean and pool view". Of this I would receive my guaranteed $14,500 or $14,000. The prices at the Royal Islander and Royal Sands should have some influence, and maybe 9 years from now inflation will help increase this amount above twice the guaranteed residual value... but the fact is that there is less demand for this side of the island.
Vacation Clubs is already being spruced up with everything the others have... a larger, nicer lobby, and many people like it the best of the four resorts because of its graceful gardens and nice Mexican atmosphere.
March, 2007: The Royal Resorts have announced that Vacation Clubs will continue as a Royal Resort for another 30 years. We have the option to receive 100% residuals OR renew for 30 years as follows: New List Price Minus 50% Discount, Minus 100% Residual Value... For example, this means I have the option to receive $$34,300 in cash for my three weeks, OR I can renew three weeks for another 30 years for $9000 which includes an $8,000,000 renovation and repairs to the resort, and to heat the swimming pools.
What has been the increase in value of land in CanCun?
In 1977, the North end of CanCun was the only section where there were resorts, except for Club Med, which was allowed to build on the far away Punta Nizuc tip, as part of the strategy for developing CanCun. Land was practically given away by Fonatur, on the condition that it would be built up. In 1983, the land where the Royal Mayan and Caribbean and Islander now stand was bought for much more... $4.00 per square meter! Again, a gift from Fonatur, on condition that the land should be developed in a certain time.
Now the Royal Sands is being built on land that is valued at about $600 per square meter, (in 1997, and going UP) and it was only available by a minor miracle, ie, the President of Mexico decided that the Presidential Villa in CanCun should be sold! There is no more beach front property in CanCun without an owner anymore. If anybody wants to build a new hotel, they have to build it up to one hour driving South, towards Tulum... Akumal, Playa del Carmen, etc... I understand people love those places also, but CanCun is CanCun, and the value of being centrally located will always be there.
Which one of the four is the best "bang for the buck?"
The best "bang for the buck" on the resale market is Vacation Clubs, which I have seen selling for about half of guaranteed residual values. If you can use the property or rent it for 10 years, your capital doubles in 10 years. This is like saving money in the bank with a 7% compound interest rate, plus you make some money on the rental or you get satisfaction from using your unit.
The risk, of course, is that you won't get your residual value in 10 years, but that is a risk I'm willing to take.
Next best "bang for the buck" is the Royal Mayan, which sells for about 25% less than the Royal Caribbean or Royal Islander and which has always been rated in the T.U.G. Top Ten as far back as I became aware of this rating list, in 1995.
Can the Royal Mayan be exchanged internally for other Royal Resorts, or only thru exchange companies like RCI?
You can exchange internally or rent it out through ISCO or through Vacation Clubs Rentals in San Antonio. An internal exchange currently costs $75, as compared to over $100 through R.C.I. or I.I. They don't guarantee an exchange, but if they don't get if for you they will return your $75.
How well will this exchange?
If you exchange through I.I. or R.C.I. they will kiss your feet and hug you, and they will jump up and down with joy.
In 1996 I exchanged a week at Vacation Clubs for a two bedroom villa on a golf course at Orange Lake Country Club in Orlando, and in 1998 I rented out my "C" Villa, week 51, at Vacation Clubs and simultaneously rented in a two bedroom villa at Disney's Old Key West, including 4 passes to the parks for 5 days, for the identical price I received for my week. It amounted, essentially, to an exchange. You can assume you could do at least as well with the Royal Mayan, Royal Caribbean, or Royal Islander.
What is the best way to go about renting my Royal Mayan week? The "In house rental program" seems to take a pretty big bite of the rental income.
Of course you have to place an ad in TUG, Timesharing Today, and The Owner's Manual. Also put an ad in Mexicondo.com. As for the inhouse rental program taking a big bite of your rental fee... there happen to be two inhouse programs... One is through ISCO, and one is through Vacation Clubs Rentals in San Antonio, Texas... Technically, they compete with each other. ISCO pays you only if your specific unit is rented. Vacation Clubs Rentals pools the villas in two week periods, and according to location, etc. then they send you a check for what they figure is your share.
My problem with both programs is not what they pay you, but that they pay you three months after your vacation period. They both rent to the customer for a lot more than you will ever dream of getting by renting directly, so you will come out about the same, but if you rent directly you receive your money before the rental, and if you rent through them you receive your money long after the rental period. In both cases, you have to have your maintenance paid up. If you don't want to handle the rental yourself, or if you don't have time to do it yourself, they are both a reasonably good alternative. The telephone number for Vacation Clubs Rentals is 1-800-531-7211 and ISCO (Exchanges/Rentals) is 1-800-930-50-50.
How much can I get for a rental?
For the whole villa, assuming you are not pressed to rent at the last moment, you will get about $1500 in high season and $1200 in medium season, and $800 to $1000 in low season. Of course, you can also rent out just the lockout or a one-bedroom suite, more or less in proportion. These rates are the same for a "C" Villa in Vacation Clubs, and slightly less for a "B" Villa in Vacation Clubs. (Update: These rates have gone up considerably since 1998)
Wow! Your notes sure make me feel more confident in my purchase at the Royal Mayan. But I thought the Royals are all "Red season."
The Royals are all rated Red (highest) season by I.I. and R.C.I. for exchange purposes, but the reality of the rentals market is that there is pale red and bright red... if we want to rent it out on our own, it is easy to rent out a week in Christmas, New Year, and Easter, not so easy to rent a week in winter and summer vacations, and more or less difficult to rent out in May, September, October and November. That is just a fact of life... supply and demand. Of course you should try to rent on your own by placing an ad in TUG and an ad in Timesharing Today and an ad in The Owner's Manual, and if you want to, also with ISCO or Vacation Clubs Rentals.
What are TUG, Timesharing Today, and The Owner's Manual?
TUG, or Timeshare User's Group, is the largest association of timeshare owners. Timesharing Today is a magazine with circulation of about 20,000 and which also has a good site on the internet. The Owner's Manual is a newsletter with a circulation of about 5,000 that circulates among Royal Resorts owners, mostly.
In my "very strong and emotional opinion" you should be a member or subscribed to all three. There are THREE THINGS that I consider to be indispensable for my maximum enjoyment of my timeshare weeks at the Royal Resorts. They are
1) a subscription to Timesharing Today, to which I have been subscribed since 1995.
2) A membership in Timeshare User's Group, to which I have been a member since 1995, and
3) a subscription to The Owner's Manual, to which I have been subscribed since about 1997, when it started up, and in which I am now an honorary "Life Member," which means I was given a lifetime subscription because I have written several articles which they have printed, and I will probably continue to write more because I like and support them.
Each is different, each is strong in its own way, and each reaches a slightly different audience. Altogether, the three cost less than $50 dollars a year, which is a lot less than it costs to belong to R.C.I. or I.I, and they make it possible that I don't even have to belong to the big exchange organizations.
But I also belong to R.C.I. because sometimes, in case of emergency, I also have used them to deposit a week or to exchange somewhere. But if R.C.I. did not exist, I would get along quite nicely exchanging my 4 weeks with these three media. I know much more about trading and about the resorts that I trade to than the R.C.I. counsellors do, or at least more than they are willing to tell me. For me, a good T.U.G. rating and review carries 100 times more weight than a "Gold Crown" or "5 Star" rating. Even the "Royal" Sunset, which is a terrible resort according to the owners, has a "Gold Crown" rating by R.C.I.
Before I belonged to T.U.G. I was reluctant to trade because once I exchanged to a winter resort that was not bad, but not as good as the villa I had given up. But with the information which I now have at my fingertips, now I can trade through R.C.I. or I.I.
I prefer to rent out my Villas and rent in wherever I want to go to, rather than exchange, but if I would exchange I would look for another resort with a T.U.G. rating of 9.0 or above at a major destination such as Orlando or Hawaii; or with the best T.U.G. rating and review I can find at a minor destination, such as a small town in New England, etc., and of course with good reviews.
There is a whole lot more I could tell you, but in a few words with the information I have from these three sources I have saved a few thousand dollars, rented out my villas better, traded my week for another week at the Royals, exchanged to another excellent resort (through R.C.I.), and in general I have increased my satisfaction from my timeshare ownership.
If you join T.U.G. or subscribe to Timesharing Today or The Owner's Manual, I will appreciate if you tell them you were recommended to them by Ellis Toussier (for which I will get an extension to my membership, and a nice letter from Bill Rogers, which I enjoy getting.)
I received a sample copy of the Owner's Manual recently. It was a pretty old copy and it was pretty thin and I didn't think it had much information. I wasn't going to bother with the Owners Manual, but after reading your post I want to reevaluate my decision. Is this printed newsletter any more useful than the Owner's Manual web site and other Timeshare sites?
The latest issue of the Owner's Manual has 24 pages. Of these, 14 pages are classified ads... for rent, for rent or sale, for sale, want to rent, and trade (want to exchange) ads, and a very short Other Rentals/Sales section. I am very interested in the classified ads because that is where I can sometimes find something I might want to buy, or trade, and it gives me a feeling for what prices are. Since it is almost purely Royal Resorts, the ads are from the people whose ads I want to read, and it circulates among the people that I am interested to see my ads if I want to rent or exchange. A recent ad in the Owner's Manual to rent out my week at the Royal Mayan got me about 20 replies in the two weeks after the issue came out. I'm also in search of a week 12 or 52 at the Royal Mayan, which I would like to own, and this is the best place to find it. Besides the ads, it has the usual news and advice sections, which keep me somewhat informed of what is going on, but it is the extensive classified ads section that interests me the most. If you are interested in buying or selling or trading or renting, I think it's definitely worth it. It costs $16 for one year, and if you ever do even one satisfactory transaction it pays for itself forever.
It is with great dismay that I post this message. My wife and I have decided to sell our week at the Royal Islander. I don't know where to begin, but having an interested buyer would be a good start. I am also unfamiliar with the transfer process so if you know how I would conduct this transaction, please give me some direction.
I'm sad for you, and I understand why you are so unhappy to sell... As for transferring... Papers have to be handled at some point through ISCO, so get them involved from the beginning. Transfer of documents will cost $75 dollars, and is a gift, from what I have seen others charge... Call ISCO at 1-954-485-5400, or contact them at www.royalresorts.com
Looking at the bright side of things, being an owner at a Royal Resort you have the advantage that the developers have set up the sales office in such a way that they will help you to sell rather than hinder your efforts to resell. Reselling is anathema for all the other timeshare resorts I've ever heard about, and you would be looking at the "resale market" which means you would almost surely lose about 50% of your purchase price. At the Royal Resorts prices go up, and the value of your unit goes right up with them. Other resorts see your effort to sell as competition for their own effort to sell. So place your unit for sale with the sales department of the Royal Resorts... Ask ISCO to send you the contract, etc. They will charge you an upfront fee, ($150 ???) and 25% of the selling price. Normally, with anybody else, an upfront fees is almost a sure sign that it is a fraud, but here you're dealing directly with the Royal Resorts. You know they are honest, so it is O.K. A 25% commission sounds high at first impression, but just think that you would be taking at least a 50% loss if you didn't have this option available to you. Here, you might even make a profit depending on when you bought and what prices are now... usually higher... List your villa at exactly the same price they are offering, or just a bit below if you want it to move faster, and it will sell right along with their inventory. Nobody else in other timeshare resorts has the help of the developer's sales office to help them if they ever want to sell... This is truly unique in the industry, so count your blessings.
You can also try (and I recommend you should try) selling it on your own, even if it is listed with Royal Resorts. If you sell it before they do, you will not be charged anything to remove it from their inventory... (just try that with a broker!)
Place an ad in Timesharing Today, T.U.G. and The Owner's Manual If you only place one ad, The Owner's Manual might get you the best results because it has a few hundred ads just for the Royals, and circulates to a few thousand Royals fanatics... But the three are excellent places to advertise, and I would place an ad in all three media, for a total cost of maybe $60. There are also other places on the internet where you can place a free ad, but the response will be less than at these three. But... free is free, so place as many free ads as you can!
I see the new Royal Sands is listed in the II directory. Where is it located?
The Royal Sands is on a property directly south of the Plaza Kulkulcan Shopping Mall about 2 miles North of the Royal Mayan (if you are at Captain's Cove, towards the Convention Center). The Royal Sands has a spectacular lobby and swimming pool, and a beautiful spa and gymnasium. Life Extension has their offices in the Spa, and the British Consulate in Can Cun is in one of the offices in the Shopping area. Villas are similar to the ones at the Royal Islander. There are two big restaurants and one small poolside restaurant. The Spa is one of the best in all Mexico.
I'm a little confused about the relationship between the Owners of the Royal Resorts and the developer. I have the impression that the true owner is a company in the Cayman Islands where all our payments are sent. A Mexican company is the manager/operator of the resort. Is the developer also a separate party? It seems very confusing. I would like to get a better understanding of this relationship so I can better evaluate in my mind if the residual values will ever be payed. I believe the operator of the Royal Resorts have been doing a excellent job and I could not ask for more. My concern is with the True owners of the resort, and that they might want to "sell" it to themselves.
The people I have always dealt with are John Olson and Richard Sutton, and I have heard that Armando Millet is also one of the principal developers, but I have never met him personally. Now, as for who "the True" owners are and the relationship between Cayman and the developers, I don't know the inner workings, but... I suppose the "true" owners of the company in Cayman are probably the same... but we will never know since Cayman is a tax-haven...
As for evaluating if the residual values will ever really be payed, according to my contract at V.C.I. there is a trust set up with Banco del Atlantico, who is therefore the "true owner" of the land and buildings, according to Mexican law. Banco del Atlantico holds the property for the beneficiaries... and Banco del Atlantico is entrusted to distribute the proceeds of the sale of the land and buildings, when the time comes. Now, I don't know exactly how this will work, but Banco del Atlantico is not going to give the developers any money except what is theirs, according to how the Trust was set up, which means first to us, then an equal amount to them, then 50%/50% if there is still any excess. It seems pretty clear to me. In my opinion, we will get our money back as promised.
In the first place, there is a Board of Advisors that will be informed of the plan as it progresses. Most importantly, the developers don't like money enough to give themselves a bad name in order to get it. And there isn't any reason for the developers to sell the resort to themselves to earn money... If they do things right they already have a 100% share, above our guaranteed residual, and a 50% share past twice the amount! So don't worry about them trying to pull a dirty stunt. The mechanism they have created (in which we know the property will have a set price on a set date) will make money for them, and is precisely what has made my purchase and yours a good investment, and not an expense like it is in every other timeshare in the industry.
Normally, the owners are given the option to buy first. So when the time comes I expect I will be given an option to buy my own villa-week. My week 52 has a guaranteed residual of $14,500, so I might be told that the resale value for another 30 (or 50 years, now) is $29,000. So I will have to decide either to pay $14,500 or receive $14,500. That doesn't sound like a problem to me, but rather it sounds like a nice dilemma to have.
June, 2006: In fact, the offer I actually got from Royal Resorts was much better than what I expected to receive when I wrote this above, many years ago. I could receive $28,300 for week 51 and 52... or I could pay about $3700 to renew both weeks for another 30 years! This is less than it cost me to buy these two weeks in 1977, and I bought at bargain basement prices then, before the resorts were built. I think others fared pretty similarly.
I'm confused on the term "Executive Penthouse" at the Royal Mayan. It was my understanding that there was only one true penthouse unit at the Royal Mayan. It's a three bedroom unit that one of the developers lived in until he built a home in Cancun a year or so ago. They are now selling weeks in this penthouse unit. I have also seen other units called Penthouse units that are Top floor units but the same as all the other units at the Royal Mayan. Only some of the top floor units have the Valuted ceilings and upgraded furnishings that you own. Do I have my information straight?
I own an Executive Penthouse at the Royal Mayan, and also a top floor unit that is not an Executive Penthouse, so I'm a good person to answer your question: functionally they are the same, but in other ways they are not the same... there are only 10 Executive Penthouse units at the Royal Mayan. The Royal Mayan is partly genius, and partly a mistake and learn as you go...
According to John Olson, when the Royal Mayan was already under construction they went to Hawaii and they stayed at some resort there. When they asked the prices of the timeshares, they were given two hugely different price ranges in the same resort. They were curious as to the big difference so they asked the salesman, why the huge price difference? He said something to them that shocked them and shook them to their bones... He said that what they really are selling is the view! The Royal Mayan has villas facing the lagoon, and the so-called "investor special" building F, most of which has no view at all!
When the developers returned to CanCun they modified the plans so that as many units as possible would face the ocean, and they embellished the top floors. So the first buildings, A, B, and C, and a few others don't have Executive Penthouses.
There are only 10 Executive Penthouses at the Mayan. They have wooden beams and fans on the ceilings, a bigger refrigerator and oven, slightly nicer furniture and decorations, and of course they are all on the top floor so they all have a beautiful view... They also cost $1000 more per week than the floor immediately below them for that privilege. I enjoy being in CanCun at both units, but of course it is nicer to have the fans, and wooden beams, and nicer furniture, and decorations, etc.
Do the Royal Carribean and Royal Islander also have different types of Penthouse units?
All the top floors at the Caribbean and Islander are Executive Penthouses. The lesson was learned with the Royal Mayan. There are no villas with a lagoon view, either.
Where can I see a floor plan of Vacation Clubs and the Royal Mayan?
Right here. The Royal Caribbean and Royal Islander have about the same layout as the Royal Mayan, but they have a bigger balcony, for a total of 1400 sq. ft. instead of 1200 sq. ft.
I want to rent a week from somebody on the internet, but I feel uncomfortable sending money to somebody I don't know. How can I protect myself from a fraud?
You should ask the person who wants to rent to you to prove that he is the rightful owner of the property, and that all past maintenance fees are paid up. In the case of the Royal Resorts, you can confirm these points by calling ISCO, in Fort Lauderdale, (1-954-485-5400) with the proper information (name, week number, membership number, etc.) ISCO requires that the owner should
authorize them to give out any information, so the owner should first FAX them authorization, to fax number (954) 730-9647.
If you trust the person enough by then, you can send him a check and have him send you the letter of authorization with a copy to ISCO, so you will not have a problem even if your letter is lost. A lawyer suggests you make out a simple contract, and also put "restricted endorsement" language on the back of
the check. In few words, this says that by signing the check the owner acknowledges that the renter is paying to receive the Villa (or Suite, or lock-off) from him for that week. Short and Simple.
Or, if you want to really be certain you don't get scammed... you can employ a third party agreed upon by both of you to be the Escrow. Remember, a third party will usually charge a fee to do this. If you can agree upon an honest third party, such as a friend you both trust, or an accountant, or an attorney, or a travel agent, you can perhaps avoid higher fees.
In essence, this is how it works:
>1)You (the Renter) will give the Escrow a certified check for the agreed upon rental rate made out to the person (the Owner) who you are renting from.
>2) The Escrow will send a letter to the Owner, stating that he has the check in his possession and will forward it to you upon receipt by the Renter of a letter of Authorization, (along with confirmation from ISCO or whoever is the administrator for the timeshare resort in question that the Owner is in fact the owner, and that there are no maintenance fees due, etc.) (call ISCO to confirm the villa and week of the year in question.)
>3) The Owner sends the Renter the letter, and sends a copy to ISCO or whoever is the administrator and after the Renter receives it, the Escrow will mail the Owner the certified check.
Can you please tell me what the weather is like in Cancun in early October?
I prepared the following chart which is a very good approximation of CanCun average daytime temperatures, and distribution of rainfall, where a 2.0 or less means 2 inches (little or no rain), and 5.0 or above means a good chance of rain. Rainfall is about upper 30's inches per year, as shown here, unless there is a hurricane (Sept. to Nov., about once every 15 years.) So... December to April is the dry season, November and May are transition, and the rainy season is June to October...
But I have been in Can Cun in the rainy season... Even if it rains, the rain goes away after a while, and the sun shines bright through the clouds again...
